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	<title>Comments on: Want conservatives on campus?  Use socialism!</title>
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	<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/</link>
	<description>The intersection of physics, optics, history and pulp fiction</description>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-1393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-1393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Once again someone lumps together conservative economics and conservative social policy.&quot;

Ah, once again someone takes a sarcastic, off-the-cuff post and tries to read it as some sort of detailed policy statement.  

&quot;I believe in global warming and evolution and in fact consider myself a militant atheist.&quot;

Good for you!  The reality is, though, that the official Republican platform, which encompasses most conservatives, and &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; conservative I ever see or hear from anywhere, does &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; follow your agenda.  In America, that&#039;s what &#039;conservative&#039; has come to stand for by default. If you don&#039;t like it, run for office or change what you call yourself.

&quot;As for cutting taxes I guess youve never heard of Ireland or understand the corporate tax policies.&quot;

Ah, yes, who hasn&#039;t heard of the Irish tax system, which has turned Ireland into the economic powerhouse of the world!  Really, if your example of successful tax-cutting strategy is a country with the 51st best GDP (easily beaten by The Netherlands, that tax-free haven, at #20, and pretty much every other European country), you don&#039;t really have an example.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Once again someone lumps together conservative economics and conservative social policy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, once again someone takes a sarcastic, off-the-cuff post and tries to read it as some sort of detailed policy statement.  </p>
<p>&#8220;I believe in global warming and evolution and in fact consider myself a militant atheist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good for you!  The reality is, though, that the official Republican platform, which encompasses most conservatives, and <i>every</i> conservative I ever see or hear from anywhere, does <i>not</i> follow your agenda.  In America, that&#8217;s what &#8216;conservative&#8217; has come to stand for by default. If you don&#8217;t like it, run for office or change what you call yourself.</p>
<p>&#8220;As for cutting taxes I guess youve never heard of Ireland or understand the corporate tax policies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, yes, who hasn&#8217;t heard of the Irish tax system, which has turned Ireland into the economic powerhouse of the world!  Really, if your example of successful tax-cutting strategy is a country with the 51st best GDP (easily beaten by The Netherlands, that tax-free haven, at #20, and pretty much every other European country), you don&#8217;t really have an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-1392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once again someone lumps together conservative economics and conservative social policy.  I believe in global warming and evolution and in fact consider myself a militant atheist.  I also understand macroeconomic theory and consider myself a classical liberal (aka laissez faire capitalism) which is now considered &quot;conservative&quot; in regards to economics.  

As for cutting taxes I guess youve never heard of Ireland or understand the corporate tax policies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again someone lumps together conservative economics and conservative social policy.  I believe in global warming and evolution and in fact consider myself a militant atheist.  I also understand macroeconomic theory and consider myself a classical liberal (aka laissez faire capitalism) which is now considered &#8220;conservative&#8221; in regards to economics.  </p>
<p>As for cutting taxes I guess youve never heard of Ireland or understand the corporate tax policies.</p>
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		<title>By: jonolan</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonolan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, given the caveat that for the purposes of this thread &quot;mainstream conservative&quot; equates to what is often described as NeoCon or Bush Co., I&#039;ll give you that one with my apologies for not being able to stem that subversion of my general party.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, given the caveat that for the purposes of this thread &#8220;mainstream conservative&#8221; equates to what is often described as NeoCon or Bush Co., I&#8217;ll give you that one with my apologies for not being able to stem that subversion of my general party.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jonolan said: &quot;There is no such thing as unbiased opinion.&quot;

Um, that&#039;s what I was implying with my previous statement: &quot;Radical conservatives believe not only that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion [which is reasonable], but that ideology corrupts and perverts every decision in life [which is absurd].&quot;

In any case, this discussion gets away from my original point: mainstream conservatives have positioned themselves as the antithesis of academic and intellectual thought.  Even people on campuses who are conservative-minded are going to be repulsed by the anti-intellectual facade that the conservative movement has constructed, and much less likely to identify themselves as such.  Maybe conservatives should spend less time complaining about &#039;balance&#039; in academics and spend more time actually &lt;i&gt; doing&lt;/i&gt; academics.

Anyway, that&#039;s it for me; I&#039;ve got more blog posts to write...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jonolan said: &#8220;There is no such thing as unbiased opinion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Um, that&#8217;s what I was implying with my previous statement: &#8220;Radical conservatives believe not only that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion [which is reasonable], but that ideology corrupts and perverts every decision in life [which is absurd].&#8221;</p>
<p>In any case, this discussion gets away from my original point: mainstream conservatives have positioned themselves as the antithesis of academic and intellectual thought.  Even people on campuses who are conservative-minded are going to be repulsed by the anti-intellectual facade that the conservative movement has constructed, and much less likely to identify themselves as such.  Maybe conservatives should spend less time complaining about &#8216;balance&#8217; in academics and spend more time actually <i> doing</i> academics.</p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s it for me; I&#8217;ve got more blog posts to write&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jonolan</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonolan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is no such thing as unbiased opinion. That is the basis of the current academic practice of requiring three independent sources for any historical attribution in a thesis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no such thing as unbiased opinion. That is the basis of the current academic practice of requiring three independent sources for any historical attribution in a thesis.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jonolan wrote: &quot;Both the liberals and conservatives limit curriculums and voiced opinions to those which match their politics / world-view... Currently, in the liberal academia of today, it is hard to find anyone willing to give factual teachings on a variety of subjects such as: Islam or American History.&quot;

I call complete B.S. on your statement.  What do you mean by &#039;factual teachings&#039;?  That we don&#039;t spend enough time talking about the Satanic nature of Islam or the glorious and perfect nature of American society?  

Universities try and teach a more sophisticated version of history, which includes both the achievements and faults of each society and religion.  This is apparently too accommodating to conservative nutjobs like &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz_(conservative_writer)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Horowitz&lt;/a&gt;, who believe that, to quote Stephen Colbert, &quot;The facts have a well-known liberal bias.&quot;

Radical conservatives believe not only that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion, but that ideology corrupts and perverts every decision in life.  We all have biases, but to automatically assume that those biases overwhelmingly corrupt independent thought is an example of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;psychological projection&lt;/a&gt; and an unjustified insult to the professionalism of people in academia and, well, everywhere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jonolan wrote: &#8220;Both the liberals and conservatives limit curriculums and voiced opinions to those which match their politics / world-view&#8230; Currently, in the liberal academia of today, it is hard to find anyone willing to give factual teachings on a variety of subjects such as: Islam or American History.&#8221;</p>
<p>I call complete B.S. on your statement.  What do you mean by &#8216;factual teachings&#8217;?  That we don&#8217;t spend enough time talking about the Satanic nature of Islam or the glorious and perfect nature of American society?  </p>
<p>Universities try and teach a more sophisticated version of history, which includes both the achievements and faults of each society and religion.  This is apparently too accommodating to conservative nutjobs like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz_(conservative_writer)" rel="nofollow">David Horowitz</a>, who believe that, to quote Stephen Colbert, &#8220;The facts have a well-known liberal bias.&#8221;</p>
<p>Radical conservatives believe not only that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion, but that ideology corrupts and perverts every decision in life.  We all have biases, but to automatically assume that those biases overwhelmingly corrupt independent thought is an example of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection" rel="nofollow">psychological projection</a> and an unjustified insult to the professionalism of people in academia and, well, everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JakeRyker:  &quot;Ok, as a moderate conservative I can say is um, why? Why is it important if one is conservative or liberal? I mean what is the point if we teach facts, and how they apply to life.&quot;

I almost completely agree.  Certain subjects are completely independent of political leanings: there&#039;s no such thing as &#039;conservative&#039; or &#039;liberal&#039; physics, for instance.  Other subjects such as history and politics are more &#039;fuzzy&#039;, and then instructors strive to teach the students to critically evaluate different points of view and come to their own conclusions, i.e. to &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt;.

&quot;Why fit things into boxes when we all start as Humans first.&quot;

Also right.  Too often, people are shoved into the &#039;conservative&#039; or &#039;liberal&#039; bin, as if there are only two points of view in the world!    In the end there is a broad spectrum of viewpoints amongst people and most of us have more in common than we imagine.  (For instance, the attitude &#039;Humans first&#039; puts you in agreement with a lot of 60&#039;s era hippies and against a lot of radical conservatives!)

&quot;Just a thought from a old man.&quot;

Geez, you make me tired when you talk like that!  You&#039;re not &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; old!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JakeRyker:  &#8220;Ok, as a moderate conservative I can say is um, why? Why is it important if one is conservative or liberal? I mean what is the point if we teach facts, and how they apply to life.&#8221;</p>
<p>I almost completely agree.  Certain subjects are completely independent of political leanings: there&#8217;s no such thing as &#8216;conservative&#8217; or &#8216;liberal&#8217; physics, for instance.  Other subjects such as history and politics are more &#8216;fuzzy&#8217;, and then instructors strive to teach the students to critically evaluate different points of view and come to their own conclusions, i.e. to <i>think</i>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why fit things into boxes when we all start as Humans first.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also right.  Too often, people are shoved into the &#8216;conservative&#8217; or &#8216;liberal&#8217; bin, as if there are only two points of view in the world!    In the end there is a broad spectrum of viewpoints amongst people and most of us have more in common than we imagine.  (For instance, the attitude &#8216;Humans first&#8217; puts you in agreement with a lot of 60&#8242;s era hippies and against a lot of radical conservatives!)</p>
<p>&#8220;Just a thought from a old man.&#8221;</p>
<p>Geez, you make me tired when you talk like that!  You&#8217;re not <i>that</i> old!</p>
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		<title>By: jonolan</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-850</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonolan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jake,

I believe  the main thing would be what is allowed to be taught. Both the liberals and conservatives limit curriculums and voiced opinions to those which match their politics / world-view.

Currently, in the liberal academia of today, it is hard to find anyone willing to give factual teachings on a variety of subjects such as: Islam or American History. If academics were purely conservative - read Christian Right for this purpose - similar levels of restrictions would be in place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake,</p>
<p>I believe  the main thing would be what is allowed to be taught. Both the liberals and conservatives limit curriculums and voiced opinions to those which match their politics / world-view.</p>
<p>Currently, in the liberal academia of today, it is hard to find anyone willing to give factual teachings on a variety of subjects such as: Islam or American History. If academics were purely conservative &#8211; read Christian Right for this purpose &#8211; similar levels of restrictions would be in place.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Ryker</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake Ryker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, as a moderate conservative I can say is um, why? Why is it important if one is conservative or liberal? I mean what is the point if we teach facts, and how they apply to life. Lets face it if I teach math does the number 2 really – really care that I view the world with X Y or Z.  

Lets say something that is more important – Human First! – Why fit things into boxes when we all start as Humans first. Imagine a world that has Humans First. No religion would be foremost – no politics – no race – no gender – NO!

It would be simple – respect me I am human and teach me what I need to know to do the job or to be a better human being…..Just a thought from a old man.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, as a moderate conservative I can say is um, why? Why is it important if one is conservative or liberal? I mean what is the point if we teach facts, and how they apply to life. Lets face it if I teach math does the number 2 really – really care that I view the world with X Y or Z.  </p>
<p>Lets say something that is more important – Human First! – Why fit things into boxes when we all start as Humans first. Imagine a world that has Humans First. No religion would be foremost – no politics – no race – no gender – NO!</p>
<p>It would be simple – respect me I am human and teach me what I need to know to do the job or to be a better human being…..Just a thought from a old man.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/02/21/want-conservatives-on-campus-use-socialism/#comment-848</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 05:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=278#comment-848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jonolan said: &quot;...but do not mistake political expediency for anti-intellectualism.&quot;

I&#039;m not sure what the difference is, in this case.  The Bush administration has made it their political policy to be anti-intellectual.  Even if their motives are more politics than genuine hatred of education, that doesn&#039;t make the end result any less anti-intellectual.  I suspect that most anti-intellectual movements were, at the top levels, purely cynical political ploys.

&quot;The issue is that the loss of conservatives in academia signals the loss of any hope of truth in academia - as would the loss of the Liberals. Academia is rife with ideological extremists...&quot;

I agree that it&#039;s good to have multiple viewpoints in any academic environment, but I really disagree with the idea that academia is &#039;rife&#039; with ideologues or that truth is hopeless without a counter-point.  This reminds me of the flawed notion in the news that &#039;balance&#039; is simply airing two opposing viewpoints without any assessment of their validity.  And I&#039;ve known people in academia over a complete spectrum of political viewpoints: one colleague of mine is a fierce Nader/Kucinich type, while another has a Bush  action figure on his desk.  Most academics lie somewhere in the middle.  

For my money, the real problem is that the current &#039;right-wing conventional wisdom&#039; is so extreme that it falls outside of any sensible discussion.  I don&#039;t think academia is lacking because we&#039;re not including the &#039;cattle-prods up the rear isn&#039;t torture&#039; crowd.

&quot;Most recent presidents have downplayed they’re intelligence and education (though “W” had far less to downplay) in an apparent sop to the the populist idea. What horrible thing does this say about modern America?&quot;

To me, it suggests that modern America in general is somewhat anti-intellectual.  It&#039;s hard to put a finger on exactly why, though.  Presidential candidates have to downplay their education and intelligence in order to survive (look at the pounding Gore took for being a &#039;smarty-pants&#039;).  Bush, however, is unprecedented in his absolute disdain for educated people and intellectual achievement in general.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jonolan said: &#8220;&#8230;but do not mistake political expediency for anti-intellectualism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the difference is, in this case.  The Bush administration has made it their political policy to be anti-intellectual.  Even if their motives are more politics than genuine hatred of education, that doesn&#8217;t make the end result any less anti-intellectual.  I suspect that most anti-intellectual movements were, at the top levels, purely cynical political ploys.</p>
<p>&#8220;The issue is that the loss of conservatives in academia signals the loss of any hope of truth in academia &#8211; as would the loss of the Liberals. Academia is rife with ideological extremists&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s good to have multiple viewpoints in any academic environment, but I really disagree with the idea that academia is &#8216;rife&#8217; with ideologues or that truth is hopeless without a counter-point.  This reminds me of the flawed notion in the news that &#8216;balance&#8217; is simply airing two opposing viewpoints without any assessment of their validity.  And I&#8217;ve known people in academia over a complete spectrum of political viewpoints: one colleague of mine is a fierce Nader/Kucinich type, while another has a Bush  action figure on his desk.  Most academics lie somewhere in the middle.  </p>
<p>For my money, the real problem is that the current &#8216;right-wing conventional wisdom&#8217; is so extreme that it falls outside of any sensible discussion.  I don&#8217;t think academia is lacking because we&#8217;re not including the &#8216;cattle-prods up the rear isn&#8217;t torture&#8217; crowd.</p>
<p>&#8220;Most recent presidents have downplayed they’re intelligence and education (though “W” had far less to downplay) in an apparent sop to the the populist idea. What horrible thing does this say about modern America?&#8221;</p>
<p>To me, it suggests that modern America in general is somewhat anti-intellectual.  It&#8217;s hard to put a finger on exactly why, though.  Presidential candidates have to downplay their education and intelligence in order to survive (look at the pounding Gore took for being a &#8216;smarty-pants&#8217;).  Bush, however, is unprecedented in his absolute disdain for educated people and intellectual achievement in general.</p>
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