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	<title>Comments on: No surprise: Girls just as good at math as boys</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/</link>
	<description>The intersection of physics, optics, history and pulp fiction</description>
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		<title>By: IronMonkey</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1969</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IronMonkey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1969</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like several socially sensitive scientific studies (try to say it quick) which goes public, people will interpret it as they want. However, the conclusion of the study is very clear: there is nothing that suggests a gender bias in the ability to excel in mathematics. 

As well explicited by the majority of posts here, it is rather a matter of interest and dedication of the person. In other words, if one is motivated and puts on the required time to study a subject, she/he will perform well; simple as that. The scientific study instead hints that cultural and social factors are much more important since they directly influence the motivation of a student:

&quot;Among students with the highest test scores, the team did find that white boys outnumbered white girls by about two to one. Among Asians, however, that result was nearly reversed. Hyde says that suggests that cultural and social factors, not gender alone, influence how well students perform on tests.&quot;

People should stop circulating the myth that the average is the same but the gifted end is not. This is simply false.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like several socially sensitive scientific studies (try to say it quick) which goes public, people will interpret it as they want. However, the conclusion of the study is very clear: there is nothing that suggests a gender bias in the ability to excel in mathematics. </p>
<p>As well explicited by the majority of posts here, it is rather a matter of interest and dedication of the person. In other words, if one is motivated and puts on the required time to study a subject, she/he will perform well; simple as that. The scientific study instead hints that cultural and social factors are much more important since they directly influence the motivation of a student:</p>
<p>&#8220;Among students with the highest test scores, the team did find that white boys outnumbered white girls by about two to one. Among Asians, however, that result was nearly reversed. Hyde says that suggests that cultural and social factors, not gender alone, influence how well students perform on tests.&#8221;</p>
<p>People should stop circulating the myth that the average is the same but the gifted end is not. This is simply false.</p>
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		<title>By: alen</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[alen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately, the study also found that most states tests didn&#039;t include complex problems; and it also verified that although the averages are now similar by current tests, at the gifted ends, there are more gifted males than gifted females.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, the study also found that most states tests didn&#8217;t include complex problems; and it also verified that although the averages are now similar by current tests, at the gifted ends, there are more gifted males than gifted females.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1961</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Babs67:  That&#039;s okay; I have the same concerns as the loom operator... :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Babs67:  That&#8217;s okay; I have the same concerns as the loom operator&#8230; <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Babs67 aka the fiancee</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1959</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Babs67 aka the fiancee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My comment on the update from &lt;i&gt;The Onion&lt;/i&gt;.  I have the same problem as the horticulturist...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My comment on the update from <i>The Onion</i>.  I have the same problem as the horticulturist&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Janet wrote: &quot;I was born with very limited spatial perception. I flunked every single one of those spatial perception tests in high school (a fact my father found terribly embarrassing).&quot;

When I tell people I do physics for a living, one of the things they always say is, &quot;Oh, I don&#039;t understand any of that,&quot; to which I reply, &quot;That&#039;s okay; neither do I.&quot;  There&#039;s some truth to my joking response, though; I&#039;m not one of those physicists who has an immediate intuitive understanding of a problem.  This weakness, if it is one, is also a strength, though: I do a reasonably good job boiling down a physical explanation to its simplest core principles, in large part because I need to understand things that way myself.

jotops:  That&#039;s an excellent list of women in math!  I&#039;m embarrassed to say that I am only familiar with a handful of the names on the list.  

&quot;I do think that it is counterproductive to society in general to argue that women aren’t as good at math as men.&quot;

I wholeheartedly agree!  Whatever cognitive differences (if any) may exist between women and men, we&#039;ve barely reached a time in history and society where everything else is equal enough to make a reasonable assessment.   Anyone who argues with an air of certainty that women can&#039;t do math as well as men is doing so with a bias and without evidence.

I myself have perfect confidence in the ability of women to do science and math simply because I know LOTS of excellent women scientists and mathematicians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janet wrote: &#8220;I was born with very limited spatial perception. I flunked every single one of those spatial perception tests in high school (a fact my father found terribly embarrassing).&#8221;</p>
<p>When I tell people I do physics for a living, one of the things they always say is, &#8220;Oh, I don&#8217;t understand any of that,&#8221; to which I reply, &#8220;That&#8217;s okay; neither do I.&#8221;  There&#8217;s some truth to my joking response, though; I&#8217;m not one of those physicists who has an immediate intuitive understanding of a problem.  This weakness, if it is one, is also a strength, though: I do a reasonably good job boiling down a physical explanation to its simplest core principles, in large part because I need to understand things that way myself.</p>
<p>jotops:  That&#8217;s an excellent list of women in math!  I&#8217;m embarrassed to say that I am only familiar with a handful of the names on the list.  </p>
<p>&#8220;I do think that it is counterproductive to society in general to argue that women aren’t as good at math as men.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree!  Whatever cognitive differences (if any) may exist between women and men, we&#8217;ve barely reached a time in history and society where everything else is equal enough to make a reasonable assessment.   Anyone who argues with an air of certainty that women can&#8217;t do math as well as men is doing so with a bias and without evidence.</p>
<p>I myself have perfect confidence in the ability of women to do science and math simply because I know LOTS of excellent women scientists and mathematicians.</p>
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		<title>By: jotops</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jotops]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My daughter (who just got an 800 on the SAT math level 2) was upset several years ago when we saw a purse in a store &quot;I&#039;m too pretty to do math&quot;. Well, she knows better - her parents met in honors calculus class! I do think all children need encouragement to be interested in many subjects. Below is a link to some women in mathematics. I do think that it is counterproductive to society in general to argue that women aren&#039;t as good at math as men. I also am aquainted with a 14 year old girl who studies differential equations, so there are at least some girls who are extremely talented at math. 

http://www.agnesscott.edu/Lriddle/women/chronol.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My daughter (who just got an 800 on the SAT math level 2) was upset several years ago when we saw a purse in a store &#8220;I&#8217;m too pretty to do math&#8221;. Well, she knows better &#8211; her parents met in honors calculus class! I do think all children need encouragement to be interested in many subjects. Below is a link to some women in mathematics. I do think that it is counterproductive to society in general to argue that women aren&#8217;t as good at math as men. I also am aquainted with a 14 year old girl who studies differential equations, so there are at least some girls who are extremely talented at math. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.agnesscott.edu/Lriddle/women/chronol.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.agnesscott.edu/Lriddle/women/chronol.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Janet Szabo</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janet Szabo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“Beyond that, it is just a matter of regular structured practice.”

I just finished reading &quot;This Is Your Brain on Music&quot; by Daniel J Levitin and in it, he makes the statement that research has shown that it takes ten thousand hours of practice to become an expert at something--that is, anyone has the potential to become an expert pianist after ten thousand hours of practice. As Greg notes, though, very few people can devote ten thousand hours of practice to becoming an expert pianist, even those of us who have regular gigs. 

I often use this example when I teach knitting classes. Knitting is a very spatial activity, and I&#039;ve often felt at a loss compared to those designers who can &quot;see&quot; sweaters in their heads and then produce them on their needles. I was born with very limited spatial perception. I flunked every single one of those spatial perception tests in high school (a fact my father found terribly embarrassing). However--because knitwear design is what I do for a living and I am sure I have put more than my ten thousand hours in at it--I&#039;ve &quot;trained&quot; my brain to be more spatially adept. Now I do things with facility that ten years ago I had trouble with. I tell people that if *I* can do it, anyone can. Besides, it feels good to live in both sides of my brain, not just the left half.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Beyond that, it is just a matter of regular structured practice.”</p>
<p>I just finished reading &#8220;This Is Your Brain on Music&#8221; by Daniel J Levitin and in it, he makes the statement that research has shown that it takes ten thousand hours of practice to become an expert at something&#8211;that is, anyone has the potential to become an expert pianist after ten thousand hours of practice. As Greg notes, though, very few people can devote ten thousand hours of practice to becoming an expert pianist, even those of us who have regular gigs. </p>
<p>I often use this example when I teach knitting classes. Knitting is a very spatial activity, and I&#8217;ve often felt at a loss compared to those designers who can &#8220;see&#8221; sweaters in their heads and then produce them on their needles. I was born with very limited spatial perception. I flunked every single one of those spatial perception tests in high school (a fact my father found terribly embarrassing). However&#8211;because knitwear design is what I do for a living and I am sure I have put more than my ten thousand hours in at it&#8211;I&#8217;ve &#8220;trained&#8221; my brain to be more spatially adept. Now I do things with facility that ten years ago I had trouble with. I tell people that if *I* can do it, anyone can. Besides, it feels good to live in both sides of my brain, not just the left half.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary wrote: &quot;Learning math is no different from learning music or language, and no one claims women are deficient in those fields.  The only innate intellectual skill required is pattern recognition. &quot;

I might say there&#039;s a bit more than pattern recognition to music or mathematics, but I&#039;m essentially in agreement with your point.  I&#039;ve often argued, actually, that the most daunting part about learning math is becoming fluent in its &#039;language&#039;, i.e. the symbols and structure of mathematical writing.  Lots of seemingly complicated mathematical theorems become almost trivial when you can &#039;translate&#039; the math lingo.  A similar statement could be made about music theory.

&quot;Beyond that, it is just a matter of regular structured practice.&quot;

That&#039;s something I wish more people would understand!  The prevailing view that math is some sort of mystical subject that you either &#039;get&#039; or you don&#039;t I suspect leads many people to quit when they first have trouble with a subject.  Though there are some exceptions (cognitive disabilities), I think people would be genuinely surprised at how much math they could really learn if they had the time and effort to try.  (Unfortunately, most people don&#039;t have the time.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary wrote: &#8220;Learning math is no different from learning music or language, and no one claims women are deficient in those fields.  The only innate intellectual skill required is pattern recognition. &#8221;</p>
<p>I might say there&#8217;s a bit more than pattern recognition to music or mathematics, but I&#8217;m essentially in agreement with your point.  I&#8217;ve often argued, actually, that the most daunting part about learning math is becoming fluent in its &#8216;language&#8217;, i.e. the symbols and structure of mathematical writing.  Lots of seemingly complicated mathematical theorems become almost trivial when you can &#8216;translate&#8217; the math lingo.  A similar statement could be made about music theory.</p>
<p>&#8220;Beyond that, it is just a matter of regular structured practice.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s something I wish more people would understand!  The prevailing view that math is some sort of mystical subject that you either &#8216;get&#8217; or you don&#8217;t I suspect leads many people to quit when they first have trouble with a subject.  Though there are some exceptions (cognitive disabilities), I think people would be genuinely surprised at how much math they could really learn if they had the time and effort to try.  (Unfortunately, most people don&#8217;t have the time.)</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Funkhouser</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1936</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Funkhouser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That most recognized scientists and musicians have been men is a result of the same social historical processes that have led to most CEOs and political figures being men.

Learning math is no different from learning music or language, and no one claims women are deficient in those fields. The only innate intellectual skill required is pattern recognition. Beyond that, it is just a matter of regular structured practice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That most recognized scientists and musicians have been men is a result of the same social historical processes that have led to most CEOs and political figures being men.</p>
<p>Learning math is no different from learning music or language, and no one claims women are deficient in those fields. The only innate intellectual skill required is pattern recognition. Beyond that, it is just a matter of regular structured practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Szabo</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/07/24/no-surprise-girls-just-as-good-at-math-as-boys/#comment-1930</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janet Szabo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=646#comment-1930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Geeze, I was wondering when you were going to show up. Your poor fiance has been working overtime. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geeze, I was wondering when you were going to show up. Your poor fiance has been working overtime. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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