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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Interference between different photons never occurs:&#8221; Not! (1963)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/</link>
	<description>The intersection of physics, optics, history and pulp fiction</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:44:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: maurizio</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-12033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maurizio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-12033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please tell your students to read (anything) with a critical mind...  In particular, tell them to consider the title of this article &quot;“Interference between different photons never occurs:” Not! (1963)&quot; in the light of what Mandel and Magyar wrote three years later in ref [3]: &quot;Surprising as it might seem, the statement of Dirac quoted in the introduction appears to be as appropriate in the context of this experiment as under the more usual conditions of interferometry&quot;. Mandel and Magyar understood that their experiment, even in its more refined version produced years later, did not actually contradict Dirac&#039;s statement.

I already raised this point earlier and the author of the blog did not answer it, he just moved the goal post from &quot;The statement is bold, unambiguous, often quoted — and wrong!&quot; to &quot;The problem as I see it is that Dirac’s statement is oversimplified, misleading, and almost meaningless in the context of modern quantum optics.&quot; 

The experiment reported here does not disprove Dirac&#039;s statement (as I explained above two years ago), but that does not mean that Dirac&#039;s statement is correct either. Actually, one of the most insightful conclusions to draw from this paper is that interpretation of experimental fact is extremely difficult and that even great physicists can get it wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please tell your students to read (anything) with a critical mind&#8230;  In particular, tell them to consider the title of this article &#8220;“Interference between different photons never occurs:” Not! (1963)&#8221; in the light of what Mandel and Magyar wrote three years later in ref [3]: &#8220;Surprising as it might seem, the statement of Dirac quoted in the introduction appears to be as appropriate in the context of this experiment as under the more usual conditions of interferometry&#8221;. Mandel and Magyar understood that their experiment, even in its more refined version produced years later, did not actually contradict Dirac&#8217;s statement.</p>
<p>I already raised this point earlier and the author of the blog did not answer it, he just moved the goal post from &#8220;The statement is bold, unambiguous, often quoted — and wrong!&#8221; to &#8220;The problem as I see it is that Dirac’s statement is oversimplified, misleading, and almost meaningless in the context of modern quantum optics.&#8221; </p>
<p>The experiment reported here does not disprove Dirac&#8217;s statement (as I explained above two years ago), but that does not mean that Dirac&#8217;s statement is correct either. Actually, one of the most insightful conclusions to draw from this paper is that interpretation of experimental fact is extremely difficult and that even great physicists can get it wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-11985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-11985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad you liked it, and I hope the class finds it insightful!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you liked it, and I hope the class finds it insightful!</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Antolin Camarena</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-11976</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julian Antolin Camarena]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-11976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the insightful post. I will send the link to students of mine taking a (*very*) introductory quantum optics class. We are covering quantum coherence and I really think that your blog entry will be of great help to their understanding. 

Thanks again,
Julian]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the insightful post. I will send the link to students of mine taking a (*very*) introductory quantum optics class. We are covering quantum coherence and I really think that your blog entry will be of great help to their understanding. </p>
<p>Thanks again,<br />
Julian</p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-10458</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-10458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dirac&#039;s statement was made, I believe, in 1933 in his QM book.  It seems that field theory was already being investigated at that time, but wasn&#039;t nearly mature enough to have led to a good understanding of its implications.

&quot; the modified statement would be that a 2-photon field would never interfere with a 3- or a 4-photon field&quot;

That&#039;s a good way to put it, especially the emphasis on &quot;the modified statement&quot;!  Part of the point I tried to make with this post is that Dirac&#039;s original statement was made in complete ignorance of later QFT developments.  In a broad sense, one can reinterpret his statement as being &quot;true&quot;, but such reinterpretations go way beyond what he likely envisioned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirac&#8217;s statement was made, I believe, in 1933 in his QM book.  It seems that field theory was already being investigated at that time, but wasn&#8217;t nearly mature enough to have led to a good understanding of its implications.</p>
<p>&#8221; the modified statement would be that a 2-photon field would never interfere with a 3- or a 4-photon field&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good way to put it, especially the emphasis on &#8220;the modified statement&#8221;!  Part of the point I tried to make with this post is that Dirac&#8217;s original statement was made in complete ignorance of later QFT developments.  In a broad sense, one can reinterpret his statement as being &#8220;true&#8221;, but such reinterpretations go way beyond what he likely envisioned.</p>
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		<title>By: qwerty</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-10444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[qwerty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 04:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-10444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve read somewhere that Dirac&#039;s statement was made when field theory hadn&#039;t come into existence. So in terms of field theory, the modified statement would be that a 2-photon field would never interfere with a 3- or a 4-photon field]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read somewhere that Dirac&#8217;s statement was made when field theory hadn&#8217;t come into existence. So in terms of field theory, the modified statement would be that a 2-photon field would never interfere with a 3- or a 4-photon field</p>
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		<title>By: Jochem Deen</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-8602</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jochem Deen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Nov 2010 15:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-8602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Found in a google search, thanks for the post and article, very clear!

But I have a question: Is the reason for the interference that what maurizio said in his first post; namely that there is interference because you cannot distinguish between both sources, i.e. they are identical and thus the wavefunction of the events should be added before &#039;squaring&#039;?

If so then I wonder about the result of the following experiment:

If you take two lasers, where one has a slightly higher or lower frequency (of only a few hz-khz or so). If these interfere, this would give a time-dependent interference pattern right? in the order of the modified frequency. My question is, would this  interfere?

What I just described is a modified case of laser doppler interferometer. In the normal setup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Doppler_vibrometer) a laser beam is split into a reference beam and a laser beam which frequency is modified because it is reflected of a moving object (doppler shift), both beams then show a time dependent interference pattern because of the frequency modification (the &#039;frequency&#039; of the interference pattern is dependent on the speed of the moving object, so thats where it is used for). Now if you replace the reference beam by a second laser, instead of splitting the old laser. Do you still see an interference pattern? If so, is the previous description of identical particles or events incorrect?

I hope I made myself a bit clear :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found in a google search, thanks for the post and article, very clear!</p>
<p>But I have a question: Is the reason for the interference that what maurizio said in his first post; namely that there is interference because you cannot distinguish between both sources, i.e. they are identical and thus the wavefunction of the events should be added before &#8216;squaring&#8217;?</p>
<p>If so then I wonder about the result of the following experiment:</p>
<p>If you take two lasers, where one has a slightly higher or lower frequency (of only a few hz-khz or so). If these interfere, this would give a time-dependent interference pattern right? in the order of the modified frequency. My question is, would this  interfere?</p>
<p>What I just described is a modified case of laser doppler interferometer. In the normal setup (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Doppler_vibrometer" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Doppler_vibrometer</a>) a laser beam is split into a reference beam and a laser beam which frequency is modified because it is reflected of a moving object (doppler shift), both beams then show a time dependent interference pattern because of the frequency modification (the &#8216;frequency&#8217; of the interference pattern is dependent on the speed of the moving object, so thats where it is used for). Now if you replace the reference beam by a second laser, instead of splitting the old laser. Do you still see an interference pattern? If so, is the previous description of identical particles or events incorrect?</p>
<p>I hope I made myself a bit clear <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: skullsinthestars</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-5068</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skullsinthestars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-5068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem as I see it is that Dirac&#039;s statement is oversimplified, misleading, and almost meaningless in the context of modern quantum optics.  As it stands, Dirac&#039;s statement taken by itself cannot be used to predict any of the effects of the experiments described, and his statement can only be applied by interpreting the meaning of the word &quot;photon&quot; beyond what the scientists of Dirac&#039;s era intended.

The situation to me is similar to the wave-particle duality controversy of the past three hundred years.  First scientists thought that light was a particle, then a wave, then a particle (photon) with wavelike properties.  Does this mean that the statements of the early particle proponents were correct?  Only on a superficial level; the real nature of light is way more complicated than those early researchers envisioned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem as I see it is that Dirac&#8217;s statement is oversimplified, misleading, and almost meaningless in the context of modern quantum optics.  As it stands, Dirac&#8217;s statement taken by itself cannot be used to predict any of the effects of the experiments described, and his statement can only be applied by interpreting the meaning of the word &#8220;photon&#8221; beyond what the scientists of Dirac&#8217;s era intended.</p>
<p>The situation to me is similar to the wave-particle duality controversy of the past three hundred years.  First scientists thought that light was a particle, then a wave, then a particle (photon) with wavelike properties.  Does this mean that the statements of the early particle proponents were correct?  Only on a superficial level; the real nature of light is way more complicated than those early researchers envisioned.</p>
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		<title>By: maurizio</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-5067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maurizio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-5067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now that is even more interesting... The last sentence of the paper you cite as ref [3], is &quot;Surprising as it might seem, the statement of Dirac quoted in the introduction appears to be as appropriate in the context of this experiment as under the more usual conditions of interferometry&quot;. 

I would say that according to the authors of [3],  Dirac&#039;s statement is bold, unambiguous, often quoted — and possibly correct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that is even more interesting&#8230; The last sentence of the paper you cite as ref [3], is &#8220;Surprising as it might seem, the statement of Dirac quoted in the introduction appears to be as appropriate in the context of this experiment as under the more usual conditions of interferometry&#8221;. </p>
<p>I would say that according to the authors of [3],  Dirac&#8217;s statement is bold, unambiguous, often quoted — and possibly correct.</p>
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		<title>By: maurizio</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-5027</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maurizio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 17:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-5027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was wondering: when you perform such an experiment, can you really be sure that you are not seeing interference of one photon with itself? If you switch one laser off: no interference, which is OK since you know where the photon came from. When both lasers are on, you do not know where a photon comes from, and therefore this photon interferes with itself. So does this experiment really contradict Dirac&#039;s statement?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering: when you perform such an experiment, can you really be sure that you are not seeing interference of one photon with itself? If you switch one laser off: no interference, which is OK since you know where the photon came from. When both lasers are on, you do not know where a photon comes from, and therefore this photon interferes with itself. So does this experiment really contradict Dirac&#8217;s statement?</p>
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		<title>By: sandrar</title>
		<link>http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/09/12/interference-between-different-photons-never-occurs-not-1963/#comment-4454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sandrar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skullsinthestars.wordpress.com/?p=879#comment-4454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog.  :) Cheers! Sandra. R.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post&#8230; nice! I love your blog.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Cheers! Sandra. R.</p>
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